Msg ID:
2802290 |
No starter in the starter's stand |
Author:bobby711
1/4/2024 11:01:23 PM
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It's been on other message boards. Lincoln Speedway is thinking of running races without a starter in the starter's stand. |
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Msg ID:
2802300 |
No starter in the starter's stand |
Author:paintman
1/5/2024 7:30:50 AM
Reply to: 2802290
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Looooong overdue! I've always said the flagger is the bravest person on the property at any track. If you watch some of the videos coming out of Australia sprint racing, the flagging and lights are completly computer controlled. I'm suprised the insurance companies have not made it mandatory for all tracks. |
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Msg ID:
2802302 |
No starter in the starter's stand |
Author:Frank A Jr.
1/5/2024 8:38:08 AM
Reply to: 2802290
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I agree with paintman 100%. |
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Msg ID:
2802305 |
No starter in the starter's stand |
Author:Rick Shive
1/5/2024 9:19:40 AM
Reply to: 2802302
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We're at the point that the technology is already being used regardless if you have someone waving the flags or not. Just another step, people that don't like it will eventually get used to it. |
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Msg ID:
2802307 |
No starter in the starter's stand |
Author:kjeyres
1/5/2024 9:49:29 AM
Reply to: 2802305
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Wall Stadium lost starter Dave Ennis in 1994 on the stand. Dave was hit by a car that came up into the stand. The worse night ever at Wall Stadium.
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Msg ID:
2802309 |
No starter in the starter's stand |
Author:Uncle Tom1
1/5/2024 10:15:20 AM
Reply to: 2802305
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Agree 100% with what everyone has said above. If you've ever been to a SDS race and were distracted by starter Dave Farney, you will welcome the day when that perch is empty ! |
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Msg ID:
2802306 |
No starter in the starter's stand |
Author:B Foder
1/5/2024 9:40:36 AM
Reply to: 2802290
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Boy all those kids flagging in the stands will have a future job eliminated. AI is taking over. |
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Msg ID:
2802324 |
No starter in the starter's stand |
Author:rchanna
1/5/2024 1:07:32 PM
Reply to: 2802306
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They can just hit the green button in the app. |
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Msg ID:
2802397 |
Not a good idea everywhere. |
Author:Kevin Mc
1/6/2024 5:51:17 PM
Reply to: 2802324
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Things do happen that cannot be seen, heard or even smelled up in the scoring tower. Yes a flagman will use all three of those senses at one time or another.
Also, a good flagman does add to the show and is part of the show.
Some tracks can probably get by without a flagman. Some tracks have a flagstand so high that the drivers never see any of the flags
Not all tracks however. Some tracks need those eyes "on the ground".
And other tracks will improve if they fired the flagman and did without. But I won't go there.
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Msg ID:
2802450 |
C'mon! No starter in the starter's stand |
Author:Joel
1/7/2024 7:49:09 PM
Reply to: 2802290
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Really ... ? There goes another part of the show, the entertainment if the flagger is eliminated. Auto racing still needs the element of "showbiz" if you want to call it that. Give me starters like Tex Enright and Marty Beberwick from up at Lebanon Valley who had control of the races and also were part of the show.
So, do they then have a digital checkered flag board rather that someone trowing the checkers?
Joel |
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Msg ID:
2802501 |
Keep the Starter |
Author:3-Wide
1/8/2024 2:07:29 PM
Reply to: 2802290
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I would like to think that any track that is thinking of eliminating the flagger, would be better served to put the energy and effort into making the area where the flagger is safer, rather than doing away with them altogether. Same goes for tracks that have corner flaggers. It is part of the show and although they have been somewhat neutered by race control in the tower, the flagger is still part of the information that the fan can count on to have some idea of what is happening. (Race is going green next lap... or not... The initial green, yellow, how many laps left, and even the ocassional blag flag., etc.) It could all be done with large light panels I guess, but as frustrated as we sometimes get when watching a flagger and maybe expecting a race to go green sooner.... or maybe a start needs to be called back, I think it'd be 10X worse looking at light panels, and waiting for them to change. I've seen some sketchy flag stands when watching Flo, so improvement can always be made, and should be made, and I'd like to think that the flagger should have a very loud voice in that discussion. (I forget what track I was watching on Flo,but the flagger had kind of a complete rollcage around him which caught my eye.) There's danger getting a car ready to race... Danger in getting the car in and out of the trailer... Danger in driving to the track.... Danger in getting cars in and out of the pits.... Danger in working on racecars in the pits.... Danger in working on the track surface.... Danger in responding to accidents/towing damaged cars off the track.... Danger in watching races to a certain extent.... Danger walking up the bleachers..... And oh yea... almost forgot, there's danger in racing. Each year/each decade I am amazed and grateful for the improvements made in safety. But if we're going to eliminate things in racing just because either they can be replaced by technology, or because there is some element of danger, then we should all just say home and watch simulated racing. |
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Msg ID:
2802512 |
Keep the Starter |
Author:Kevin Mc
1/8/2024 5:17:48 PM
Reply to: 2802501
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My theory on flagstands is 99% of them were built without any input from a flagman. |
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Msg ID:
2802513 |
Question for Kevin Mc: |
Author:3-Wide
1/8/2024 6:04:52 PM
Reply to: 2802512
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Kev - I know you've flagged at tracks in many different states. Did you ever decline to flag due to safety concerns and/or if/when concerns were raised, was anything done? There's nothing in racing that is 100% safe, but there's also some stuff that is more obvious than others, and at the end of the day, if somebody doesn't think it's safe, (looking at things from the perspective that cars, wheels, parts etc.,., end up where you'd least expect), then they shouldn't get on the stand, and should let track owners/promoters know why. Nobody wants to see anyone get hurt at a racetrack, and that doesn't start and end with the drivers. |
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Msg ID:
2802522 |
Question for Kevin Mc: |
Author:Kevin Mc
1/8/2024 10:20:11 PM
Reply to: 2802513
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Firstly, NES had/had an excellent stand. Built like a brick...you know. Good thick lexan window and the lights were user friendly. High enough to make a hard target but low enough that the drivers can see you.
There's been a few tracks where I knew safety was an afterthought but the show must go on. If I refused here in the South the track would say fine we'll use our own flagman and our drivers wouldn't like that.
I've been here on 3W since the beginning so I'm sure I've mentioned this before but I worked at one track where I was climbing up into the stand and part of the ladder came off in my hand. Literally falling apart.
Long/short, I look at it like a racer; it ain't ever gonna happen to me.
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Msg ID:
2802527 |
Keep the Starter |
Author:SteveWhitney
1/9/2024 7:58:07 AM
Reply to: 2802501
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The first thing I thought of when this discussion started was of what the flagman adds to the show. I have to agree with 3wides that another element of the show will be lost if the flagman is replaced by lights operated by race control. Afterall, what hooked most of us on racing as kids was the SHOW...loud, colorful, and breathtaking. |
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Msg ID:
2802901 |
Keep the Starter |
Author:Howie Cronce
1/13/2024 10:30:16 PM
Reply to: 2802501
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I agree with you Joe...With all the cookie cutter car bodys its getting boring enough without taking the starter away...He runs the show(most of the time)...When spectating I always would watch what he was doing if there was an issue on the track...Cant think how bad it would be for the fans...Hard to get good crowds now dont make it worse..I would relate that to taking the Refs out of Pro Football and officiate from the suites...Not A Good Idea...My 2 cents...HtH |
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Msg ID:
2802503 |
No starter in the starter's stand |
Author:cam
1/8/2024 2:22:16 PM
Reply to: 2802290
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Agree with 3-wide message. Keep the starter! |
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Msg ID:
2802563 |
No starter in the starter's stand |
Author:Pee Wee Fan
1/9/2024 6:56:37 PM
Reply to: 2802503
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For me, the "flare" of the "live" starter went out the window when Tex Enright's days were over. Tex was "dancing with the devil" when he started races at Windsor from the inside of the track across from the starter's stand. Dangerous for sure. I think all of us who have attended races for a ton of years would think somethings missing if there was not starter. But realisically, isn't everything controlled from the booth these days? Even re-starts could be called "upstairs". The one human element that I feel all tracks should have are spotters, with cummunication to the booth, on every corner. Hopefully they have more than just a yellow flag. In summary, I would miss not having a starter, but would get over it. Scott Ely |
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